BlackFor30
Liberation is a philosophy that must first exist in our minds before manifesting through our actions.
BlackFor30
Black in Time: Who was Kwame Ture?
Ever wondered how the term "Black Power" came to define a generation? In this episode, we talk about the life of Kwame Ture, better known as Stokely Carmichael. From his foundational work with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) to his radical shift towards Black Power, we examine how Ture’s activism and his influence from figures like Amílcar Cabral shaped the fight for civil rights and Black liberation.
Transitioning from blatant segregation to insidious practices like redlining, we discuss covert methods perpetuating racial inequities. We analyze the ideological struggles within the Black Panther Party and SNCC, highlighting the debate over non-violence versus armed resistance.
We explore the layers of systemic racism that persist today and examine the ongoing struggle for Africa's autonomy, drawing parallels to contemporary issues of resource exploitation and neocolonial control.
Finally, we stress the importance of psychological emancipation and cultural identity in achieving collective progress. Our discussion extends to the geopolitical challenges faced by African nations—sanctions, economic manipulation, and media bias. By addressing both historical and modern-day issues, we highlight the necessity of unity and self-awareness in the continuous fight for equality and justice.
Host:
Fungai Mutsiwa
Co-host:
Sean Solole
BlackFor30 is a place for exploring Pan-African theory and praxis through discourse. Send us your thoughts and questions @blackfor30 or via email at admin@blackfor30.com.
Support BlackFor30
At BlackFor30, we believe that liberation begins in the mind and manifests through action. Your donation helps us amplify Afrocentric perspectives, foster critical conversations, and create initiatives that challenge narratives and inspire change. Together, we can keep the mission alive and impactful. Thank you for being part of this journey.
There's always someone who's trying to tell us how we should be, how we should live, how we should think, and until we start doing that ourselves, we will never truly, truly unite. I have a dream today. Is it too much to ask you to grant us human dignity? Who taught you to hate the texture of your hair? Who taught you to hate the color of your hair? Who taught you to hate the color of your skin to such extent that you bleach for so many, many years.
Speaker 2:We were told that only white people were beautiful you're afraid that if you give us equal ground, that we will match you and we will override you, black is beautiful, say I want it free, free.
Speaker 2:Usakango ni dumbo pawakachirwa, which means don't forget who you are or where you came from. Welcome to Black for 30. Thank you for coming through and joining us in another discussion on Black for 30. And, of course, before the episode begins, we just need to observe 15 seconds of just being quiet, just so you can wrap up whatever it is you're doing, and then we can fully engross ourselves in this discussion to come. So the 15 seconds starts now.
Speaker 2:So today's episode we're focusing on kwame ture. Um, so this is black in time and um, you know, in case this is your first time listening to it, um, it's a series we've developed where we're looking at key figures in African history. It's a brief look at some of the people who were quite instrumental in the liberation for Black people, and I mean it still continues anyway. So today we're focusing on Kwame Ture, originally named Stokely Carmichael, and he was a prominent civil rights activist known for his contributions to the Black Power Movement and the global Pan-African movement and, of course, as well being involved in the Black Panther Party. So he came into activism early on and he would have joined the student nonviolent coordinated committee, which is known as SNCC, and this was while he was at Howard University, and so he started to gain national attention as a leader in the civil rights movement, mostly through his participation in freedom rides and voter registration campaigns in the South. One of the organizations that he was a part of at that time was Lowndes County Freedom Organization, which is based in Alabama, and that actually later inspired the Blank Path Party itself. So you then look at in the six this is in 66,.
Speaker 2:Carmichael then also popularized the term black power, which is during a march in Mississippi, and the march was in retaliation to a I think it was a Black student who had been killed while on a peaceful protest. So the march was emphasizing, you know, racial pride, economic empowerment and the creation of political and cultural institutions for Black people in America, institutions for black people in America. So you know the slogan Black Power marked a shift towards a more resistant or militant, resistant and also separatist type of activism, you know. And then from there on he moved to Africa because at that time he was being persecuted by the American government, you know. So we'll obviously tap into a whole lot of that and bring out some of the people who also influenced him, and you know what his ideologies were about, and to do that I am joined by none other than yeah, it's me, sean.
Speaker 1:I am, uh, back again. Uh, good to be back for a new season and I guess, yeah, it was starting off on the right foot. I guess for me you know a bit more militant in in terms of of who we're looking at, so you know, happy to delve deeper into the man.
Speaker 2:Man like he's Watching his lectures and talks was quite inspirational, because his energy bro, he just kind of just rubbed off onto you Like I can only imagine what it would have been like being in the same room, you know, but he just had this no bullshit attitude, which I really appreciated, because you could just tell that he's someone who had just, you know, grown sick and tired and had enough. And you know, when you get to that point, it tends to really change how you look at some of this shit, you know. And so what I'm also hoping to do is like, as we're going through his history, is like tapping into the different influences, you know, just outside of him, um, and his you know, his actions and his ideologies but also looking at some of the people who came before him that were influencing his approach. And the first person I'd love to talk about is Amilco Cabral, who was a key figure in the 1975 liberation struggle for Guinea. So this was against Portuguese colonial rule and his theories were on national liberation, which was emphasized by cultural identity as a source of pride, and he also saw it as a strategic necessity for unifying people in our quest for self-determination. So that was that, but he also advocated for struggle, highlighting the strategic importance of mobilizing the common people as a revolutionary force, and part of what he argued was that intellectuals should actively engage with the masses and contribute practically to the liberation struggle. And that's sort of where you didn't see their parts cross between you, you know, kabbalah and Ture, because Ture was really a reflection of that an intellectual who was very involved in the movement, you know, and speaking of that, like one of his most, I guess, referenced speeches was in the March Against Fear which happened in Mississippi, right, and that's where the whole term Black Power came to be, and at that time he was calling for Black people to define and control their own destinies rather than rely on others for their liberation.
Speaker 2:He propagated the idea to build independent institutions that foster self-determination and challenge the systemic racism. And if you look at the civil rights movement at that time, it protested against racial segregation, voting discrimination, police brutality and, of course, like you know, economic inequality, right, but actually, like, as I was looking at Toure, because I kind of figured to go before to look at him in his student days, you know, and so this is where he was at at SNCC, and so, like, sncc was just basically a committee. That was founded because there were students in the south of America who were sitting in lunch counters like segregated lunch counters, right and obviously they were being refused service. And you know, it started off with about four students and that grew to about 300. And around that time you then saw the there was the freedom rights campaign, right.
Speaker 2:So freedom rights campaign, which has started, and that was mainly because they were trying to test the ruling of the Supreme Court, right, because the Supreme Court at that time had declared it unconstitutional to segregate. You know public buses, right, but of course, you know, just because it's been passed by law doesn't necessarily mean that the society will accept it. So how has the shift from overt to more subtle forms of racism affect the collective activism within the black communities?
Speaker 1:I think I mean the overt racism was, you know, just segregation and so on and so forth, right. The more covert racism was your Jim Crow laws. You know things like redlining. You know the school system, where you know home school system, where you know homeowner fees fund the schooling system. Which is why, you know, in mostly black and impoverished neighborhoods you get you know the terrible schools as well is because the fees that you pay from your homeowners taxes, whatever go into the school system. So the nicer the neighborhood or the wider the neighborhood, the nicer the school, because they pay a bit more of a premium and their money goes into their education. That's one of the prime examples.
Speaker 1:The next one is home loans or financial assistance for black people. That was another one. So it meant that, regardless of how successful you are, if you're black you are more likely to be turned down for a loan, or you know, for a home loan or whatever it is that you needed that money to finance, right, so you were more likely to be turned down because of your skin colour. That was, you know, an operational, I guess, sort of mandate that they had in regards to, you know, upholding that racist structure. There was many, many communities that were like thriving all across America, especially in the South, that you know were flourishing and you know, due to racism they were either burned down, destroyed, whatever it was, you know. But the whole shift from overt to covert racism basically meant that what you did was now more nuanced in to disenfranchise certain people, which meant, you know, your district was now, you know, hundreds or thousands of miles long and there's only one or two voter registration places where you know you'd have to trek, you know days at a time to get there just to vote, which meant that you know if you couldn't afford it, you're not voting right. It was one of the many ways that were targeting people, especially if you're poor, and because they knew most blacks in the south were poor, what you do is you hit them in the pockets.
Speaker 1:So essentially that whole they got smart to it, for lack of a better word um, in that they realized that rather than if the law is going to change, so we're going to change as well, we're just going to change the laws and tweak them to make them still advantageous to us if we can't be, you know, overtly racist anymore. So it succeeded in basically now creating divisions within the same community. So basically, it's now the have and the have-nots of that group. Same community, so you, basically it's now the have and the have nots of that group. So if a white person favored you, um, over the next black person, you might have, you know, gone to the same school, have the same credentials, whatever um that person. Because now you're getting favor from this person, from this white person here, or you know you're getting some sort of advantage over your fellow brother there.
Speaker 1:It created. You know that, that's that resentment that comes in. So now you don't have to target the whole group, you just have to make the people fight amongst each other. So once you put the poorest of the poor together, it's bound to create problems, it's bound to create issues. That's why we have the ghettos that we have now. You know things like food stamps, they're synonymous with black people. For some reason, even though it's, you know, more white people are on welfare than black people, like you know, as when you look at it per capita, because of you know, yeah, so it's odd that you know we associate things like food stamps with black people, but white people outnumber black people on the welfare register.
Speaker 2:Because the narrative matters more than the facts.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter what it is. I could tell you that the sky is blue on a sunny day. But if the narrative is to say it's pink to drive, whatever it is, whatever agenda is, you know, hot at the moment, then it's going to be the agenda that is pushed. If you look at music like rap music today mostly, what's one of the most common things that you hear is you were raised on food stamps, were poor, single mother, um, had to do it tough with multiple children, you know, and then the only way out was either crime or sport. Right, but we all know that that's not true. Otherwise that would be true for every black person, but we don't.
Speaker 1:You know there's thousands of athletes out there, but there's hundreds of thousands, millions more people who are just doing your everyday, normal jobs. And yet the narrative that's pushed out today is that for you to be able to be considered a successful black person, you have to start poor and then work your way up to the to. You know, literally started from the bottom, you know. So they use someone like drake to sort of push that narrative along and whatnot. But he was never poor, but it's just to make it seem as though that's the only way that black people can succeed.
Speaker 1:So it's it's just shifted over the generations, um into do into, you know, things like music and culture now that perpetuate the same thing, but at the very top is still the same people in charge. So my feelings towards that are that it's just we black people at the moment, it's just we're always two steps behind Every time that we think we get a leg up. You know, from the civil rights movement, we had people like Kwame Ture fighting for us, malcolm X, martin Luther King. We had these people, you know, going through the struggle. That should have been it really. It should have been on an upward trajectory when these guys were doing what they were doing, but instead it's almost like we went sideways and sometimes backwards right.
Speaker 1:It's almost like we went sideways and sometimes backwards right, in that each and every time that we've gotten a win, you know, legislation has passed, a law has changed, then something else has been tweaked within that legislation where, yes, black people are no longer segregated. However, it is now entirely up to whatever institution the right to refuse entry, the right to refuse service, you know. So now there are those things that come into play where we think, oh okay, now we have to basically conform to their demands. Still so. Before we weren't allowed, but now they're just making it harder for us to get in. Still right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, imagine, like, whenever I think of that, I think of hip-hop clubs here in Sydney. You know where it's like. As far as we know, hip-hop, you know part of that culture means you know baggy pants. That culture means you know baggy pants. Um, you got your fitted do-rag, probably got a throwback or whatever. It is that you, that whatever kind of style that you want to rock is, is your thing, right. But then we didn't rock up and, and you know, they tell us oh, you can only wear dress shoes. I'm like what the fuck? Who's wearing dress shoes at a hip hop club, bro? What kind of dancing are you doing at this fucking club, right? And then you wear dress shirts to get into this club and quickly we started to dress in that, well, appropriate and I say appropriate with quotes because you know to what you're saying, saying, you then just conform eventually yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:And the ironic thing about it all is hip-hop culture is based on rebellion, right? You don't conform to societal norms and yet there's a dress code. How does that work? So? So it's these subtle little things that are still in place to try and control the narrative, in that, yes, we're allowed to express ourselves, but within certain means, within certain confines of the rules. We can't be outwardly black, in that, you know it'll cause upheaval and scare white people. Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't do it all the time. Come on now. Yeah, you can't do it all the time come on now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't be black every time that's that's wrong and you know, turn it down a lot.
Speaker 2:And you had a interesting point about you know just how, by it being covert, it allowed for different groups within the black community to have different experiences, and the power of that is is mad like from a psychological point of view, right, because you can see how that's also fueled a lot of the self-hate or the hate we have for one another in the same community, right, and a big part of it is our experiences being different, you know, and also not being aware of our different experiences.
Speaker 1:I think by now we should realize that we've done enough to earn respect and we're not getting it, so the next step is to take it. We're still fighting for the same, you know, recognition, but at some point we have to realize that it's not recognition that we need. It's respect. And sometimes you either earn respect or you take it.
Speaker 2:So can it be argued that the fight for civil rights because we would have been asking for too much if it was equal rights right symbolizes the broader struggle for dignity and respect, but more importantly, I'd say the depravity and complex of races.
Speaker 1:Definitely. And the thing is, the civil rights struggle never actually ended. Yeah, because you still don't have a lot of civil rights.
Speaker 2:We're still fighting police brutality.
Speaker 1:Exactly In certain places we are in other places, we're still fighting just overt racism. Here in Australia, the indigenous people are still looking to be recognized in the constitution of the land that they were here before the people who wrote it.
Speaker 2:That to you and I, to any logical human being, that doesn't make any sense the fact that we, the fact that we have to to vote for it, was even just wild in itself. It's like. It's like, oh, wait, wait, hold on, let's, let's see how we feel. Okay, let's just, let's just test it out and see how does how does everybody feel in the room?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean yeah, you know, do we want them recognized as people or what? I don't know?
Speaker 2:so, and funny enough, that still isn't the thing and so people had this argument like, oh yeah, but like you know, the constitution does, does affect me. I'm like, cousin, this ain't your land, so, so shut the fuck up, right, like even if they wanted to chuck all of us out, it is their right Because it is their land. So what did you mean? Well, because now I have, you know, now I have constitutional rights, so therefore I have an equal say you don't have. You have a say, but it's not equal.
Speaker 1:That's. You see, that's the thing and that you've now you've got to undo their conditioning as well. So when you look at it, um, you realize that not only are they attacking you know the our sense of blackness and what that means to be black, it's also they're programming their own people to then look at themselves as the victims, right. So that's why you have this constant war now. And it's funny to see, because those you know, those allies, the you know the people of, you know non people, people who are not of color, whatever the hell that means.
Speaker 1:Look, I'll just say black people, um, and you know other, I guess, oppressed minorities, these words, they, they, they. It just shows you just the level of of brainwashing that these people have to go through to tell them or to make themselves feel better. Um, and by these people in this instance I I'll say the left, right, um, they use words like, uh, you know, poc, people of color, oppressed and minority, and blah, blah, blah, like they just these are just all buzzwords, right, so that it gives them a sense of, I guess, participation.
Speaker 2:You know, kind of like oh yeah, helped, I mattered, type of a thing, but like it's also dangerous because it minimizes, like it has the danger at least of the risk of minimizing the experiences of others because, like, they are still nuanced, right. So, yes, we can all be people of color, for example, right, but my experiences to that of an indian are still very different. Our circumstances as to what brought us here are still very different, right. So, um, it's, and we love to categorize things, right. So it's like, so that it can make sense to us, but I'm like, I, I have no relation to an indian, apart from the fact that we're both in this country. You know what I mean is this as far as I go, right, but, like, I'm classed in the same group as that person you see, so that there in, in and of itself is to let you know and, and who chose these terms, by the way, you wonder, you see?
Speaker 1:so not only are we now being told what our identity is, we're now being told what to call it, so that we can't have an identity if it's owned or packaged by someone else. You had nothing to do with it, it came from someone else. They chose what they were comfortable with and it's just enough that you feel like you're represented because one of stokely's, kwame or whatever you prefer one of these things.
Speaker 1:One of his issues with the black panther party was that, ironically enough, the black panthers were for armed struggle but were happy to have people from other communities join.
Speaker 1:That was his big issue was that they were willing to let anyone and everyone join.
Speaker 1:They basically were saying that to have white people in your corner is advantageous because they can open doors that black people can't, which is true if you're wanting to be a part of that system, but if you're for armed struggle, why would you want to be a part of the system? That doesn't help you. It doesn't make any sense, because you're taking something You're not asking for it anymore, so the conditions shouldn't matter, and that was, you know, his biggest beef with the Black Panthers was that they were just willing to take anyone and everyone. His biggest beef with the Black Panthers was that they were just willing to take anyone and everyone. But the issue in there lies that that ally of yours could be, you know, an agent who's sent in to destroy, which we've seen happen countless times throughout all of these movements, with COINTELPRO, with, you know, the CIA, with even the British Foreign Office, like. They all have their own campaigns to try and destroy each and every one of our civil rights leaders. Right, and they did it.
Speaker 1:Largely. They were very successful in doing it across continents, not just America, africa, europe, caribbean, south America, everywhere. They've done it, they've been doing it and they continue to do so now. So what we have to, I guess, understand is that not only are we dealing with, you know, the overt means of destroying us, which is, you know you're outright racist, but at least you know they're up front about it. It's the ones who are behind the scenes, the one who come in wearing, you know, dressed in sheep's clothing, to try and say oh no, I'm for you, I'm with, I understand your plight. You don't understand what I'm going through. You can sympathize, so you can empathize, but you do not understand, and that's, I think that's where we need to draw that line.
Speaker 2:You're mentioning the ideological differences, differences that tour then faced, like when it was in black panther party, but like it was also evident in, because that, actually, that that started in the while he was at snick.
Speaker 2:Because, like there was, um this issue where, under his leadership, you know, snick moved from non-violence to military approach, you know um, and at this stage the concept of non-violence was championed by mlk, you know um, but that's where they they had their differences, um, because, and you know, tour actually comes out and says is that, like you know, his biggest disagreement with mlk's movement was how he was unable to discern the integral difference between non-violence as a tactic and as a principle, you know where nonviolence and the struggle for civil rights, you know, is a tactic or a means to achieve an outcome, right, not a fundamental truth. And to illustrate his point, you know he remarked about how, you know, one of the weaknesses or one of the biggest weaknesses he sees in the African revolution is how we allow our enemies to strike with impunity. You know, look at Israel, right, the Iranian president questioned the Holocaust and called for, you know, the destruction of Israel. Weeks later, dude is dead. And you know, some mystic helicopter crash, right but it's just a coincidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so what do you think?
Speaker 2:about um resistance as a tactic in the fight for liberation oh, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, um, look at this stage honestly. Uh, I'm just waiting for everyone to catch up, because essentially, we just allow a small group of people to basically determine not only the quality of life but how you're supposed to live your life too. So they're basically trying to be morality police and say we were violent to you, but you can be violent to us and you have to turn the other cheek. That's bullshit. I think we need to understand that there comes a certain time where asking stops and taking begins right, because if you look at colonialism, for instance, there was never any asking, that was just straight up taking. And they're still taking now. But the only difference is now it's called foreign policy or foreign aid, it's under the guise of that, but they're still very much taking and they're abusing the people who say, hey, stop destroying our community, stop destroying our country. They kill those people Always, have always will Right. Look at people like Gaddafi, patrice Lumumba. We go all the way back.
Speaker 1:Congo has been. This is not the first time Congo has been in disarray. We've grown up seeing so countless issues happening in Congo that it's now. We just think, okay, who is it this time? But it's been happening. At some stage we have to realize that, like there's a Bukidafaso in Mali and Chad, they had these coups and we always hear oh, there's another coup, another coup. But in this instance what is happening is that the people have been fed up with the colonial rule and they're now realizing that we've just been played basically puppets, and that has to stop. So they're taking backwards this and it's working.
Speaker 1:Yes, it may take some time and yes, there'll be issues, but that's because those colonial powers are still fighting very much. You know what I mean. They now just threaten to withhold aid or to withhold money, which is okay, because at the end of the day, those African countries need to realize that without them, without us, europe basically falters. Without them, without us, europe basically falters. That no longer becomes an issue. That money then stays within Africa and then we can actually use it, or those resources, we can actually use them for the betterment of the people. But we need to stop asking. We just need to take back what's ours. It's as simple as it gets.
Speaker 2:So I'm all for, I'm strong, and I think the counter argument to that for me comes from a place of certain privilege. You know, because and I also want to say selfish, because it's easy for me to sit here, and I also want to say selfish because we it's easy for me to sit here and say how there is no need for military action, and that's because I wake up to, you know, birds fucking chirping out the window. You know what I mean. Yeah, exactly Right, so my life is not in immediate danger. Right, because if the roles were reversed and we place that person in congo, right, where any moment could be their very last their perspective you're toiling in the mind their perspective would quickly change, you know, because now they're dealing with a much more immediate threat.
Speaker 2:So, for me because I remember even Kwame Nkrumah was really big on this the idea of creating a pan-African army, you know, because the reality is the world that we live in, one way or another, will force themselves on you, and I'm speaking more specifically to the big powerful countries. Right, if they want something from you, they will take it and they don't shy away from it, right? So if the very nature of democracy won't stop them, or if the very nature of values such as morality, ethics, won't stop them, then what other choice do I have? Right, because I have to protect my own at the end of the day, I'd love for us to, like, get into, like, toure's role in the, the panther party. You know, and, interesting enough, I found out that, um, how, how the party started was in some way because of Toure. While he was still doing the Freedom Ride campaigns in the South, he had started a political party called Lowndes County Freedom Organization. Right, and their emblem, because every party had to have an emblem their emblem was a panther. So, um, that obviously then later inspired Newton Hutton and and Seal to to found the, the Black Panther Party for self-defense right, and they also adopted the Panther symbol because it signified, you know, resilience and empowerment against oppression. And then so you have Ture later joining the Panthers in the late 60s as its national spokesperson.
Speaker 2:Right, advocating for self-defense, empowerment and community-oriented initiatives. Right, and he would emphasize that liberation for Black people must come from within their own communities. Right, and one of his key efforts was in creating community-based initiatives, you know, such as community-run schools. Right, which would reject Eurocentric frameworks, ideologies and standards. So, seeing as how education services reaffirm and uphold societal perceptions and values, right. How do you see frameworks such as critical race theory, for example, reshaping standards and, more importantly, how we think and this is equally important for Africans as well like as an on the continent, right, where there's a lot of colonial influences that are evident in our educational systems?
Speaker 1:I mean, the whole thing is just an imprint of colonial times. Even the schools, the names are still, you know, of the colonial masters. If you're like, I'll give you like, in Zimbabwe alone, the schools are still named after people like Alfred Bate, admiral Tate you know, it was a King George college and all that like St George, all of those things, like it's. It's still very deeply entrenched and that's due to the fact that we were taught, obviously, this Eurocentric history and we were told, we were taught at, you know, from a young age, that to aspire to anything worth a damn is to try and live like how white people live. So, essentially, the that whole in it's indoctrination, it's not really education, is it? But the that whole system is started obviously to prop up one group at the expense of another. Um, and pretty much what you know what the black panthers, what, and what kwame tore and malcolm x and all those other guys were trying to do, was trying to show that black people have their own history, have their own culture, have their own ways, languages, you know everything, things that we're meant to celebrate but we're not allowed to due to the fact that it's not something that we're allowed to express. So you know these theories like things like critical race theory, you know they do help in that it shows everyone on equal standing. That it shows everyone on equal standing.
Speaker 1:Now, a lot of people don't like to hear that because, I guess, you know, skin scares them and it's very much a small-minded approach, or, I guess, more of a fear-based approach, in that once people start realising that they're equal, the system will topple, because it won't just extend to race, it will also extend to socioeconomic status, as because it won't just extend to race, it will also extend to socioeconomic status as well, won't it? And the main thing that they're trying to protect is their money could give a damn about skin, right, but the these are the people who are higher up. They don't care about skin color. That's nothing to them. It's more about the money, it's about profits, about control.
Speaker 1:When you filter it down to you know your regular run-of-the-mill racists you find that they are indeed just worried about skin tone, which is funny, because I don't remember that meeting of choosing to be black to you. I wasn't there. They had a meeting about being white and yet they wake up every day and say, oh, thank God, he made me white. Where did you get that information from?
Speaker 2:and your mom probably this is probably the only people you could attribute, that shit to.
Speaker 1:But that's the thing, though. At that time it wasn't just their parents, it was everywhere. You know you had whites, only this colors. Here you know, back at the bus for colors, blah, blah, blah, like it was they were, it was in their faces. So I do understand that. You know those people. They grew up seeing these things.
Speaker 1:So as a child, if you see that you know white is better than black, is better than yellow, is better than brown, is better than whatever, you're gonna believe that that's just how it is.
Speaker 1:And if no one tells you otherwise, all the way into your adulthood you're gonna fight, you know, for that truth, because it's the truth to you and no one has challenged it. And if someone who's black tries to challenge you, you're gonna be like, oh no, you're inferior to me. So what do you know? So there's really that hurdle there that you can't really leap over.
Speaker 1:And because you know human beings are emotional creatures as well, this thing, these things, are attached to emotion. So if someone attacks a fundamental belief of yours, you're going to respond in an emotional manner, because this is your foundation that's coming under attack. You will take it as a personal attack. So these theories do help, I guess, in trying to create parity. But that will never happen as long as we still have these small minded people who genuinely believe that race is a factor in determining so many things, when it matters more for physiological things, it has nothing to do with who I am as a person. It just has to do with who I am as a person. It just has to do with my location.
Speaker 2:Another interesting thing about that as well is, especially the people who argue against critical race theory is when you ask those people what critical race theory is actually, because you find, like in one of of his videos it found it very funny he was just talking about capitalism right versus socialism and um versus communism, right, and he was just saying americans are against communism right, like if you just hypoth, if you run a poll today, a huge amount of Americans would be against communism, or at least you know, contextually, considering when he was making this speech.
Speaker 2:Right, find what communism is. You'd find very few people know, which is very baffling. Because you know, wouldn't it benefit you to know as much as you possibly can about your enemy or about something you despise so much? Right, yeah, but yet people will freely make these judgments and share these opinions about matters that they know little about, and I think you know critical race theory is just an example of that. There's a quote from franz fannin which I found very interesting on identity and consciousness. Right, he said that which does not exist can hardly have an effect on reality or even influence it. Yeah, so Franz Fanon was also a huge influence on Toure, right, and so, for context, fanon was a psychiatrist and philosopher and a revolutionary from Martinique Wow busy man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, revolutionary from martinique, um, wow, busy man. Yeah, and you know he influenced tourist views on the psychological impact of colonialism and the necessity of psychological emancipation. Right, and you were talking about that earlier as well, um, and in a lot of his work he'd that earlier as well, um, and in a lot of his work he'd do an analysis of cultural assimilation, particularly in his book, the, the Richard of the Earth I'm not sure if you've read it, um, no, I haven't. And you know that sort of played part in in strengthening Thierry's resolve around how he resisted, uh, cultural assimilation and he affirmed for an African cultural identity, you know, and both of them believe that it's critical to decolonize the mind, you know, and as an African right, you know, and as an African right, and that comes with reclaiming our history, culture and consciousness, you know, and he had, like he was making this distinction between obviously having you know, having been in America for a long time, he was making a distinction between the Negro and the black man.
Speaker 2:You know, for a long time he was making a distinction between the Negro and the black man, you know, emphasizing that the black man embraces his African roots and cultural legacy, contrasting that to the black American, you know, who negates and alienates himself from that connection. You know, and of course a big part of it is because of slavery right. From that connection, you know, and of course a big part of it is because of slavery, right. But then, when you look at both our histories, you know Africans, the African Americans, you know, for African Americans, their ancestors were forcibly brought to the Americas as slaves, right. While for us, we endured colonialism and its aftermath in our countries, right. But both experiences, though, resulted in broadly the same issues, which is, systemic racism, oppression and complex identity struggles.
Speaker 2:So for him, the question of community was not of geography but color. He saw a black, united front, and he'd make the point that African-Americans would often reject their connection to Africa, right, and feel ashamed. But a lot of it really stemmed from lack of education about Africa, right. The same way and this is which I felt like was an interesting point, right, because he was saying well, the same way, when you were born, you knew nothing about america. You had to learn about it, right? Um, so of course, you won't have a connection to africa because the education systems neglect to teach you about africa, right? So therefore it's your personal responsibility to learn about it.
Speaker 2:So, the you know, earlier we were talking about the internalized, internalized hate that we we carry within the community, right, and these perceived animosity against different subgroups within the black community. Where can we start to build solidarity? Like, do you see? Because it really is valuable, right, Because for as long as those fractures exist, we don't have a united front into what you're saying before, right? Like, it's easier for us to be toppled, like, when us, amongst ourselves, are not even united.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the thing that we have to realise is that this is a struggle that's happening on multiple fronts. Like I was saying before, it's not just, you know, in the music. I mean, if you look at music now and I'm not to say that you know, music 20 years ago was, you know, all uplifting and highly moral and stuff like that? No, but it's because now it's easier to get information from wherever you are in the world. We know what's happening in America pretty much almost right after they do. We know what's happening in Africa pretty much almost right after they do. We know what's happening in Africa pretty much right after they do.
Speaker 1:This information comes to us a lot quicker. But it's a lot easier to spread misinformation Because by the time you've debunked that, a lot of people have taken and run with it and they've changed that information into whatever it is that they want. So essentially, we're no longer just fighting, uh, misinformation, but we're fighting the speed in which this is sent right. We are dealing with, you know, a cultural assault in that you know people like ice spice. Um, you know what I mean. Like, best example, the BET awards were on yesterday, right, and what was being promoted was all the female rappers. They came on and they did their performances and what do you think their outfits were?
Speaker 2:Revealing, to say the least.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, if there was enough material for it to be revealing, right. So what I noticed is that there is this still. There is still very much a hyper sexualization of black females, right, and those are the role models that pretty much the kids get to see, because this stuff is all over things like tiktok and instagram and whatever. We are already fighting that degradation, as is, but we're still trying to undo the, the mental slavery that you know occurred over generations, because you know how you know people talk about things, because you know how you know people talk about things like generational trauma and stuff like that. That that is. This is what that is, in that you don't just get over 400 years of of, of of oppression, that that becomes embedded in your, in your DNA. As for Americans, I guess we can talk about 400 years, but for Africans, you know it's hundreds of years of colonization becomes embedded in you, because how you think, how you feel, how you act, is determined by what's going on in your environment, for the most part, right. And these things, whether you're conscious about it or not, they affect you, they affect your kids and your grandkids and so on and so forth, your grandkids and so on and so forth. So if you're born and you're in a state of anxiety, you're constantly worried, or you're being mistreated or whatever, it's going to pass on to your offspring whether you like it or not, and then it's on you to undo that. Now for us to come together, we have to undo generations of mistreatment, not by going after the white people, no, no, that's a problem for later. We need to look in-house first, sort our problems out. This is where we encourage you know, all this talk about, I guess truth and reconciliation for lack of a better term where we need to come out and take ownership of what it is that we've done wrong as a people to each other. Firstly, amongst ourselves. You know you have people that have grown up. They were abused by family members that they don't talk about it, you know, because they'd rather just bury it under, you know, under the sand, rather than address it and actually heal someone. If we do those things firstly right ourselves as a community then we can fight this misinformation that's happening now, because if you were to look at, for example, the Kendrick and Drake beef, I'm sure everyone is well across that. One of the main things that Kendrick did was go after Drake for his blackness.
Speaker 1:Right Now, I'm not picking a side or anything. What I'm trying to get across is that we are still trying to undermine each other based off of how black we are. Right, and a lot of people jumped onto you know the whole. We don't want to hear you say, nigga, no more, that whole thing, you know not like us, whatever, right.
Speaker 1:And for us to be able to move beyond where we are, we need to stop doing things like that, because once upon a time there was the one drop rule yeah, you could have had great, great, great, great, however many great grandmothers that you want who was black. It could have been 100, 200 years, whatever, that far back that if you were black, then you're going to be black. Now, right. So white people were like no, no, no, no, even if it's just a great great of whatever you're still now considered black, that's enough for you. We don't want you. Now we're doing the exact same thing, in that if you're a little bit white, if you're a little bit mixed in, and we're very much into these categories of what's a light skin or your mix, or your red bone or your this or your dark, and it's if we get beyond the colorism of it all, if we stop looking at these things, we will be able to realize that these are just constructs. We are now falling into that same thing that white people were doing by creating these constructs because they wanted to believe that there are degrees right. So now that's a thing for us is now we believe that there are certain degrees as well.
Speaker 1:Like you know, if you were born and raised in the suburbs, you can't talk about any black struggle.
Speaker 1:That doesn't make sense, because you're still black.
Speaker 1:And if you're living in America or in a racist part of somewhere, you're still going to struggle. You just get to go home to a nice house and loving parents, but the racism is still there, correct? Until we accept that the people perpetrating this are over there and us as a people need to be over here and work on ourselves. We need to forgive each other before we can attack those that have wronged us. We will never get anywhere, and that comes through information, social media, music, culture, dress. Everything is that there's always someone who's trying to tell us how we should be, how we should live, how we should think, and until we start doing that ourselves, which is what the black panthers were trying to do, which was malcolm x was trying to do, and to a certain extent, martin luther king, but you know, slowly and more peacefully, I guess we will never truly, truly unite. And things like gangs, they all just add on to these things as well, because we're just ruining our own communities on top of it, which makes it even worse.
Speaker 2:A lot of this fear and hate, you'll find that it comes from, you know, misunderstanding or just a lack of knowing, you know. So it's like that then manifests differently depending on which context we look at it. You know whether it's gang on gang violence.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, there's um, I don't know if you got to listen to the dude Grip. I sent you to like, I sent you the link to one of his tracks called Cul-de-sac, but I had that song on repeat and it was just, and it was just very telling, right? Because essentially what he's just saying is you know, this world is just like this world of you know, black America is like living in a cul-de-sac. Is you know, this world is just a like this world of you know, black america is like living in a cul-de-sac. You know, sometimes you are just too stuck in it because of the realities of the life there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's difficult for me to to go beyond thinking about anything else outside of the cul-de-sac, you know. So I think, to what you're saying, there's a, there's a massive amount of effort that needs to be done in terms of us just sort of, you know, doing our version of a, you know, truth and reconciliation kind of thing, where we just sit at the table. It's like all right, bro, because you know, I'm sick and tired of, like, you know, hating, hating you for no apparent reason. I don't even know where it came from. You know what I mean Because you live in another street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to go back to Toure for a bit on a point in his life when he then left the Panther the Panthers party right, and due to those ideological differences the Panther's party right, and, you know, due to those ideological differences we're talking about right and he had felt that the party had strayed from its principles and become more focused on individual personalities and more than the collective struggle you know.
Speaker 2:So, in his effort to escape persecution and harassment from American authorities, he fled to Guinea and he sought asylum there and because Guinea at that time were actively supporting pan-Africanism, so I think it was Secretary who was, who was the president then he offered him a safe haven, fast forward that then allowed toure to join the all african people's revolutionary party right. And so this was formed, um, of course, by kwame and kuruma and the party advocates, because it's still around today as well, when I signed up for it, but, like um I, I still haven't had the opportunity to like, uh, properly engage in it, but, like I just really appreciate about the fact that, like you know, it's still around and, like you know, they've got active chapters across the world. So, you know, essentially they advocate for pan-Africanism and global unity amongst African people, right? So it's the idea of you know people, right?
Speaker 2:um, so it's the idea of you know, standing up for a collective struggle for social, political and economic justice across the continent, but then also the diaspora included, you know and turi himself was quite vocal about the development of africa before and after colonialism, you know, and one of his influences around that was Walter Rodney, who was like this Guyanese historian and he's noted for writing the book how Europe Underdeveloped Africa. I'm not sure if you've read that one. It's a really dope read.
Speaker 1:I am actually trying to. I've been looking for it. I can't find it anyway oh bro, like surprise surprise. No, no, you can find um I, I got a copy.
Speaker 2:I think I got it from. I don't know where I got it from, though, um, I think it was from from amazon. The one that was hard for me was, um, the amil amil cabral's book, because that one is like made to order, so you have to like request for it, and it took months for it to come through yeah, no, I've been looking for how Europe underdeveloped Africa for at least at least a year now, and I just can never find a place that says I'll send you the link like where I got it from.
Speaker 2:So I've been reading it recently, right?
Speaker 1:but yeah, so great bro, because it's good isn't it.
Speaker 2:Great bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he's basically just dissecting what he makes a comparison between Africa before colonialism, right, so how were our political and economic systems developing then?
Speaker 2:And comparing um the western countries and how they were developing as well, before they'd expanded. And then he then looks at those that expansion, post-colonialism um, sorry, like during colonialism, right, and how that started to grow, and then, at the same time, the rate at which africa was declining, you know um. So it's a very interesting lens to be able to to look at those um, you know those two in that way, yeah, um, but yeah, but back to tory. So, like in one of his lectures, he he mentions two groups of influence in the post-colonial era, which were the Monrovia Bloc I know we were talking about this earlier, right, like so the Monrovia Bloc, who are a group that comprised of Nigeria, liberia and most of the Francophone countries, liberia and most of the Francophone countries and then you had the Casablanca Bloc, which was mostly Algeria, egypt, guinea, morocco, ghana, of course, and the two groups had opposing views on what African unity and liberation movements met.
Speaker 1:Where you had the Monrovia block, supportive of France um, who favored more moderate, a more moderate version of nationalism, and independent state.
Speaker 2:Surprise, right, yeah, I mean, if you're already back in France, especially at that time, I already got question marks um and, in contrast, you should already know, that's yeah in contrast, you had the casablanca block, which advocated for supranational african uh or pan-african authority right, which was designed to then combat colonialism, uh, promote economic development, enhance geopolitical influence. You know, because now you're speaking with one voice but ultimately the Monrovia bloc's ideas prevailed, leading to the creation of the Organization of African Unity, oau. That was in 63.
Speaker 2:So, and today we know it as African Union, right, and so it was formed on the basis of independent statehood, non-interference and promoting national sovereignty over Pan-Africanism.
Speaker 2:So now, as I look at us, right as the diaspora, I feel we bear some responsibility for the rise of the rise and perpetuation of fake leaders and unpatriotic elites who serve Western interests. And I say that because, when you have a look at it, we have a significant financial contribution that we provide the continent through remittance, right? So basically, the money that we send back home with its value, western Union or world remit or whatever, it is right, because those are the same funds that then get embezzled, you know, so making us indirectly responsible. So, given our investment into the continent, I feel we should formalize our contributions into meaningful representation you, you know, whether it's a board appointing representatives or establishing some form of organization where you know there's better oversight and influence on how our money is used. Right, because we criticize we heavily criticize the continent, yet a lot of us do very little to change the circumstances, and that really gets to me. So I think you know this is a possible counter to organizations like AU or SADC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree with that. Like AU or SADC. Yeah, look, I totally agree with that. And just to go back to what you were saying about the formation of the African Union, just for a bit of context, what year was the Monrovia block and the Casablanca?
Speaker 2:block. So that would have been in the 60s In the 60slanca block.
Speaker 1:So that would have been in the in the sixties, like In the sixties. All right, so the, the, I guess the the, the two groups that you mentioned during that time there was a lot of, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a lot of Pan-Africanism was, you know, taking off? That was at its height. You know cause you have your Kwame Nkrumahs, your Patrice Lumumba's, samora Machel's, you know, robert Mugabe, nelson Mandela, all of those guys were all, at some point or another, actively involved in the struggle, right? And I guess, in regard to that, the reason why the Western favouring one was obviously because of all the political assassinations that were happening at the time. You know, you can't get your point across without a little bit of violence, it seems.
Speaker 1:And at the time, the people who were supporting the French, obviously they were, you know, getting their pockets lined, which is why we have, you know, the dictators and the despots that we had, you know, from the 70s, 80s, 90s, all the way through to, you know, now, in some countries, it's because these people were propped up by, you know, the Western governments, who would rather have a dictator there to keep that country unstable than to have that country flourishing, and to realize that, you know, France or America, or England is pillaging their natural resources and using them to make profits for themselves and keeping that country poor, right?
Speaker 1:So, I guess, and when you you mentioned, you know, the some sort of board to monitor or, you know, to have a say in where the money goes and how it's disseminated, and things like that. That also, like it makes a lot of sense in that you know, we definitely need something that's, I guess, beyond the control of a government, something you know that may, that is an independent body essentially, but unfortunately I think that's that's in um, with the current stage that I guess african politics is at, it's still you can still very much see that you know the west is playing a massive role, um, in what happens to, you know governments and to people, for example, uh, look at kenya right now they, you know governments and to people, for example, look at Kenya right now they. You know the protests that are happening there. Like you know, 20, some 23 odd people have died since the protest started, and that's because more yeah, so that was yesterday.
Speaker 1:I read 23 yesterday. Way more bro.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we will get into it, all right.
Speaker 1:All right, cool, well, anyway, more now, it seems in the last 24 hours, but that was because of proposed tax hikes, not by the Kenyan government, mind you, but by the IMF. So they were the ones who were like, look, we'll give you more money, but you've got to increase taxes so that you can pay us this money back because of all the economic issues that we have given you. So it's always like this cycle of stupidity where it's like the West comes in and says we want this, we'll give you this in response, but then their money comes with conditions this in response, but then their money comes with conditions. So up until we recognize that the IMF, the WEF, usaid and any other foreign aid service is not actually there for their help or for the assistance of your everyday African person, they're there to maintain that Western hegemony, I guess, on resources and on anything else security, politics, social life, everything they basically get to determine what it is you talk about, what it is that you're fighting for, and until that is stopped, we will always be going back and forth.
Speaker 1:And another prime example is the South African election.
Speaker 1:The ANC lost the majority for the first time since 1992, or whatever it was, whenever Nelson Mandela won, you know, over 30 years, or almost 30 years of, you know, political dominance and speaking for South Africans, not to say that they represented everyone, but they represented the majority.
Speaker 1:But now, all of a sudden, because of what South Africa has been actively doing against a certain country I won't say who, but we all know the blue and white country flag.
Speaker 1:So what happened was, the political opponents to the ANC were then now boosted by political funds from outside, from millionaires and billionaires that have now all of a sudden taken an interest in South Africa ever since their case at the ICC. And now you have those rivals that were being boosted by outside parties. They're now coming into power as part of a coalition government, right, so they still have a say in what happens in South Africa just because the South African government disagreed with something that someone else in another country did and chose to take a moral stand, right. So until interference in political affairs of africa and anywhere else in the world? Because it's evident everywhere, until those things stop that board or that, that that the independent group will not be able to have a proper say in what happens to africa by africans? It's impossible, because there will always be someone trying to subvert it for their own political or monetary gain it was like that.
Speaker 2:Um, that lady I was telling you about, like uh, who did? That's the african lady, you know her, like the one that was complaining about um.
Speaker 1:Naledi Pandu.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and she was talking about how there was a Jewish representative sitting in a meeting for the.
Speaker 1:African Union yeah, the AU, yeah, on the invitation of some African countries. I'm like you know what that's wild, bro, and one of them was Kenya, by the way. Yeah, and the thing is she opposed it?
Speaker 2:only to be surprised that she was the only one that was standing up to oppose it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wild right. What?
Speaker 2:like it's insane, just purely what the israel doing in an african, in an african union yeah, and that's that's the thing like.
Speaker 1:Until we get rid of these people who are there for greed and have been placed in these positions of power in order to maintain this hegemony from the west, we're not gonna have any sort of freedom, we're not gonna have any sort of of of say in our own affairs, and when someone does try to have a say in their own affairs, they get sanctioned. Um, then they get called a dictator or a despot and then they create unrest in that country. Look at Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe was sanctioned to the point where the economy look, we can't even say the word. We couldn't say the word economy for at least 20 years in Zimbabwe, right, where the currency was devalued so badly that we no longer had a currency. We still don't have a zim dollar now, right now, mind you, the zim dollar, you know, 19, from 1980 up until maybe 1990. Something was comparable to the us dollar, no stronger than the us dollar, and comparable to the british Wild Right, yeah. So then when the president starts saying, oh, america's bad, england's bad, then they're like oh no, he's a dictator, now we're putting sanctions on him.
Speaker 1:And then what we don't really see is that, you know, these people were then actively creating and sowing unrest in Zimbabwe through agents, right? So anytime you heard of a Western-backed rival, a political rival or opponent, right, it meant that they were getting money from the United States, not necessarily for the United States, they were expecting them to win, but they just needed a face. And then, from there, what they would do is they would serve discord amongst the people. Hence, you know, your riots, your strikes, you know any sort of rising crime at a, at a political juncture, right. So when you start to get the, the political violence, it means someone has come in and started to create the feeling that there's going to be violence. Right, so you can't pinpoint who, because then they use people who are there and then they use them as agent provocateurs.
Speaker 1:And from there, that's what happens is that you find that people start getting jailed, but then they say, oh, they were being jailed because they were expressing their political view. No, it's because they caught you in an act of some sort of sabotage. And to be able to maintain that narrative that you're a dictator, because you know, someone got put in jail, they say, oh, it was because of their political views. And we see that everywhere, because it's usually things like BBC and CNN that are reporting these things, isn't it? And because they can control that narrative, it's now much harder for us to say, oh no, america's bad or this is bad. It's because they're saying, oh no, we're the angels here. We came and brought you aid, millions of dollars of aid, food and whatever, and now you know you kick us out. Yes, it's because that food and aid is like a Trojan horse.
Speaker 2:It comes with extra requirements. Well, it's like Mali when they left the CFA zone, right, yeah, and of course, because that was threatening France's treasury reserves. So what they did is they flooded Mali with fake notes To devalue the economy. And then what they did is so they were then left with no other option but to go back into the CFA zone. And what the French did, the French government did, was to say you can come, but on the condition that you devalue your currency twice. And of course, because what benefit that would stand for the French economy is that they would be buying, they'll be buying imports at a very low price, and most of their imports are never really unfinished products. Their imports are unnatural resources. They take those resources, flip them into the finished product and then they sell them at a high markup yeah, you see, and that happens everywhere, everywhere across africa, everywhere.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, that woman, uh the former ambassador to the UN, the Zimbabwean our personal hero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's my personal hero, that one too. She said the exact same thing when she said that let's say Zimbabwe and Mozambique are next to each other. Yes, let's say Zimbabwe had oil and Mozambique wanted some oil. They can't just go next door and say, hey, can we have some oil for this price? What they have to do is Zimbabwe has a subcontract to a foreign country we'll say BP or Shell they come in, they mine for it, they refine it, send it offshore to refine it wherever, and then they bring it back. So mozambique has to go to to to bp, or to show and say, hey, we want oil from zimbabwe, which is next door, but it has to go to europe or to wherever, and it gets refined and then it gets sold back to them at a higher price, whereas the oil that they got from zimbabwe is either pretty much they got it for dirt cheap or they got it for free, depending on what arrangements that they got into then?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he has to leave the continent for it to come back. Nigeria is one of the biggest oil producers in the world I think top three, if I'm not mistaken. But look at their state Now. You know some people might call this conspiracy or whatever, but things like Boko Haram and ISIS ideologically they don't make sense because, let's say, you and I have a revolutionary group right and we believe in Armstrong. Now where are you and I going to attack? If you and I would have a revolutionary party that says we're here for black liberation, who would we attack? Would we attack black people because we are there for their freedom, right, for their liberation. So tell me how it makes sense that there is a muslim, a terrorist group, in a primarily I mean, Nigeria is pretty much split 50-50, right?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure what the split is, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because then you also got your traditional religions and so on and so forth, but the majority is either Muslim or Christian. Correct? How does it make sense that someone like Boko Haram would attack their own people? But you want the people to put you in power, but you're attacking them. How does that make sense?
Speaker 1:So when you look at these things, you start to realize that because of their resources, nigeria isn't allowed to prosper because it's a black nation. So they have to create these issues to keep them in a state of unrest so that, you know, your BPs and your shells can take all that product, take it elsewhere without people noticing that that's what you're doing. There's been, I think there's an ongoing litigation case right now against Shell about what they did in trying to build a pipeline to a village, which has now poisoned the water supply for I don't know how many years. And there's people that still live there and they're currently in court against Shell. But for the longest time that case wasn't heard. Nigerians don't even speak about it. I don't even think a lot of them know what's happening. So these things are being suppressed in order to keep, you know, these companies making money off of these resources at the cost of their own people.
Speaker 1:So, when you look at why Nigeria should look at Saudi Arabia, they are one of the biggest oil producers in the world.
Speaker 1:Look at them, right, but because they were able to, I guess, to set their own points for negotiation, they are excelling in a way that Nigeria can't, because they were able to take and say, look, we won't give it to you unless we have a seat at the table. In a way, right, they are dealt differently by the West because they were able to exert a bit more force and now they're a world player. Nigeria, on the other hand, look at them. They're languishing, but they could be one of the richest countries on earth, not just because of the oil, but because of other natural resources, same as you know most of those countries in the Sahel right, like you know most of those countries in the Sahel right, like you know your Burkina Faso, your Mali's, your Chad's, and all that. If you notice that in each and every one of those points there was some sort of oil pipeline or some sort of discovery that was made, but there's always been, again, things like ISIS, like where the hell did ISIS pop up from over there?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. These are things that are kept in place to create that destabilization in order for people to worry more about their immediate survival rather than how we can elevate ourselves, because you can't worry about the history that you're teaching your country if you're in a constant state of war.
Speaker 1:For sure you're in a constant state of war, for sure and that's what we have to look at and realize is that, no matter what we try and do, there's always going to be this unrest that's been sowed because there's always a rebel group rebelling against something. How, how in the hell are they always just popping up out of nowhere? And it's always a new one with a new acronym and rsf uh, people's liberation of this, liberation of that. But then they get their weapons from America. We've got to start looking at these agents and start to realize that this division is being served by our people, but by external forces. Instead of looking at us, we should start looking at who the interests represent.
Speaker 2:Talking about the protests in kenya, so obviously, like you know, the storm off that I think it was the parliament house raid. In retaliation, the government shut down the internet and they killed approximately about 200 people, um, so they literally rocked up to a neighborhood and they just started shooting. There's also a story I heard, because I know somebody who's there and he had gone to one of the protests, right, and he was telling me about a sniper who was, because obviously the police had to barricade the parliament house, right. So there was a sniper there.
Speaker 2:Don't know what the fuck you need a sniper for, but sure, because you know you're at war. You know what I mean with your people. So there's a sniper and this dude blew the head off of one of the protesters and it turned out that the dude he shot is the brother of one of the police officers that was there barricading, and so there's a part of me, like you know, the human side of me that was like damn, that's really hard. But there's also a part of me, like you know, the the human side of me, that was like damn, that's, that's really hard.
Speaker 2:But there's also a part of me that was like that's what it fucking takes for you to realize, because the cop then apparently uh resigned after that and of course he's in grieving right. But I'm like so that's what it takes. I'm happy for what's going on because I'm hoping that the Kenyans will serve as a symbol of inspiration to other places as well.
Speaker 2:You know and Toria was making a very powerful argument from where I stand around the difference between mobilization and organization you know. So he was talking about how. You know mobilizing is, you know, bringing a mob together, you know, to protest for something right.
Speaker 1:So it focuses on yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it'll focus more on the immediate issues, right? Whereas organizing is more rooted around permanent change, you know, through revolutionary actions, right? So the idea that, okay, cool, what then happens after the protest, you know. So, yes, we're protesting about this, but then you know, like, where are we trying to go with this, right? And so he, he would talk about how the significance of combining revolutionary theory with practical efforts to empower the masses for political change, and there's a, there's a saying which I feel is really sums up. You know what he was talking about, but then also what you were just talking about I think this is from MLK it says the slave will work harder to put out the fire on the master's house than the master themselves.
Speaker 2:And that's how I look at it when I think about whether it's civil servants, whether it's the police, whether it's military, whether it's the African elites, or whether it's the politicians, whichever level you want to look at it, that's really who they be at their core. And it makes me even a bit more worried because there because, with every decision we make in life, like we make trade-offs, right, the moment you choose one thing, you're choosing it at the cost of another, right? So I don't know what's more worrying someone who thinks about it and makes the conscious decision to still go ahead and you know be one of those snipers, for example, or the person that doesn't even think about it at all, like, I don't know who's more worrying, but that's, that's just the state of affairs. You know, um, right, yeah, I guess you know, as a um, it's a thought to sort of um, it's a thought to sort of end uh, this conversation on um.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, I think a big part of what we're talking about just signifies the importance of the revolutionary theory in in people. Being able to like it allows people to be able to grasp the fundamental reasons behind the social problems and the oppression. You know, it empowers individuals, but also us as a community, by deepening our awareness of what's going on around us. You know, whether socially or politically, very few things in life I knew A lot of. It is just, you know, through learning from the old and innovating, you know, so it pays. It's worth, you know, paying mind to people who came before us For the listener.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming through for another session. For sure, appreciate it and, as always, stay black. I hope this was a learning experience to adopt and change the way you think and live. The goal is for us, and that includes to be able to see ourselves for who we are, so we can accept the person in the mirror and begin to value ourselves. Whether you agreed, opposed or were offended by some of the content, I encourage you to engage with me so we can have positive discussions in trying to understand each other and trying to understand each other. So send your comments, reviews or feedback to our Instagram, blackfor30, or an email to admin at blackfor30.com. If you believe someone would benefit from this episode, please share it. When you get to the end of this recording, please subscribe to Black for 30 wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your time and I wish for you to join me again.